I bought these because I generally like dry cymbals, and wanted an alt pair of hats for more electronic kind of vibes. I'm admittedly brand loyal to a fault, and AGOP are generally amazing. I was hoping they'd be a similar but fun switch from the Meinl hats I used to have... and, ultimately, no. These are fully too dry in my opinion, to the point of just being lifeless and trashy. The 17s are cool in that regard, but I can't say I personally recommend these if you haven't tried them yourself first.